yew hew, christians!

[wendykh]

I read this today and found it really interesting:
http://us.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/01/24/best.selling.christian.ap/index.html

I have lots of committed christians and even ministers/minister wanna bes on my f-list, can you guys speak up tell me your thoughts pls?

It's just something I don't see often, but probably because yk, the media chooses to focus on the other type.

Comments

[chatgoddess.livejournal.com]

Interesting article. I was just talking with my minster the other day and she mentioned that this is becoming more common - really, it's just xian churches moving toward being UU in a lot of ways, but probably not realistic in the long term, broad view. She says those people should just leave their Christian church and become UU ;). I think it's really hard to reconcile hard core Christianity culture in American society with the broader culture without giving up something of the belief system. I applaud this guy and what he's saying; do I think it'll catch on? No. Do I think people who feel like him will find religious homes in other venues? Yes, if they look hard enough.

[70schild.livejournal.com]

I agree a lot with what he said, and much of it is why we don't go to church. Church reform is need, but I'm not sure i see it happening. maybe a split? I dunno. Maybe more towards organic, personal faith.

On the UU front, many liberal Christians are stuck, because UU is more "Jesus was a great teacher, like all these other guys" and less Jesus the Son of God. At least that's my understanding.

For many followers of Christ, the dogma has been stripped away until nothing *but* Jesus is left, so we can't really lower him down too. :)

More so even than fundamentalist, Church has become big business. It's disgusting really. Ron & I went into a christan bookstore for some holiday shopping, and it had been literally year ssince we'd been in one. Everythign is marketed.

If Jesus is do great, if God so good, why does he need a marketing campaign? Why do we have to bribe kids with rewards and stickers and make everything 'cool"?

(Rhetorical - becausew there's no money in it is why.)

[chatgoddess.livejournal.com]

I think that UU ministers may preach that, but UU is a place where many Christians end up, who don't feel that they fully can fit into their regular church's teachings. There are Christians, Jews, Pagans, Buddhists, etc., that attend UU. The church really encourages you to find your own path, and is built around the premise of accepting all people.

I agree that the business aspect of church is disgusting.

[girl-fawkes.livejournal.com]

This guy may have wish-I-didn't-have-to-save-my-virginity-til-marriage good looks, but he's not saying anything particularly new. John Spong's been saying this kind of thing for a lot longer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong

Likewise, Canadian churches have been at the grassroots of many social justice movements (fair trade coffee and debt forgiveness are the two most famous things they've started), so really, the image of Christians as being conservative is, well, bunk, a whole hell of a lot of the time. Also, the collusion of conservatism and evangelism is really co-incidence more than anything, they aren't theologically connected in the slightest.

fun-damn-mentalists vs. dirty hippies...

[cloudkucooland.livejournal.com]

Christianity is not a two-party system. In unsettled matters of faith, the most learned Bishop and the most ignorant believer are equal. This is not a Democrat vs. Republican or conservative vs. liberal conversation, there are many, many, many more voices at the table. Most are far more subtle and intelligent than you would expect from the garbage the media throws our way.

I've not read the author in question. He doesn't sound too far off from most of my friends from seminary. The social concern, the disdain of fundamentalism and the idea that if the entire church were like the Southern Baptists we'd all leave is actually REALLY common with the old-line Protestants and a good number of the Catholics. Fundamentalists are really good at getting press coverage. But they are neither moral nor majority--just a noxious and yet oddly photogenic mass. Besides, in a nation that reads like 9 year olds, a thought harder than "yes or no" is not to be expected. Bush's "Good vs. Evil. Right vs. Wrong" played well with those who think in "yes or no" terms. So does fundamentalism. It sells because it is easy.

From what I can glean from the article, this guy is in the "post-evangelical" camp. There are some great minds in there. I recommend Shane Claiborne and the neo-monastic movement. But, the deeper problem that the liberal Protestant, the post-evangelicals and even the fundamentalists all fall into is: "it's all about me." Right now I'd bet that 85% of people who call themselves Christian in the US and Canada all subscribe to an individualistic version of the religion: how does it make me feel/what do I get out of it? Take out the well-trained Catholics and you'd be left with 95%. The Christian Church in North America has failed. Miserably.

When forced to pick a group, I stand with the liberals. I like what I read in some of the post-evangelicals. I reject as anti-Christian most of the fundamentalists. I don't find it hard to make religious friends, even in the belt-buckle of bible belt. But, I'm not a liberal. I simply can't accept that this is about me, my feelings, or even what I'm to do in the world.

"I cannot tell you how much I did not want liberal or gay people to be my enemies. I liked them," is a good start. Much closer to the Gospel than what you'll find in a conservative pulpit. But it is still wrong. God loves everyone. And because God loves everyone, I must too. Liberal, conservative, gay, celibate, hetero, poor, rich, ugly, beautiful... Since God loves them, I must love them. Because it isn't about who I like or not, it's about who God loves and the answer to that is very, very easy. This is a much easier conversation to have with liberals, but it still is outside what they are doing.

So, my point is that yes, liberalism like this is common in the church. But it is not the only other option.

Re: fun-damn-mentalists vs. dirty hippies...

[rehenazelreyhan.livejournal.com]

Wow...what an impressive reply. Very, very thought-provoking. :-)

[carrier.livejournal.com]

My minister has referenced that book in his sermons many times recently! :-)

This comment is of no value, but I added it anyway.

[rehenazelreyhan.livejournal.com]

As someone who spent many years in the Christian Church (and no longer attends, but feels somewhat lost, spiritually) I related to this quote:

"The real issue in the Christian community was that (love) was conditional ... You were loved in word, but there was, without question, a social commodity that was being withheld from you until you shaped up."

Definitely.

What he has to say makes sense to me, but as a result of the above issue, I would still be hugely reluctant to be part of even a more moderate Christian Community.

The Christian Church is so divided.